The Fourth conversation about earning salvation by deeds.

I realize that you encounter the same problem:  you do not succeede in interpreting a literary text, a Biblical text, the context, and you often analyse the things out of the context.  Besides you lack many information about history, culture, Israel's history, the church's history, language and literature. The linguistics is one of the main problem for you. Many elements of linguistics which we now use in language and literature are imported from Bible: methaphor, irony, satire, hyperbol, etc. God created all these. Secular people hold that all these mentioned humankind  took from Bible.  Pray to Lord to enlighten you to understand the things correctly.

Comment: Brother If I have said something out of context or wrong interpretation, then it is your job to prove from bible that my interpretation is wrong, without any reliable proofs your argument does not make any value.

If I have a different understanding about a topic than yours, you don’t have to be sad, as you said. if you have a good answer give me your biblical answer without judging me how I am what I am, God knows so much better about me than you do and  you do not need to judge over me. I simply asked you the questions to get the ideas or your understanding about the topic and my desire is to share understanding or knowledge to eachother but not to condemn or judge you.

The problem here is not about culture, or history or literature. It is about the doctrine; either you are saved by deed or faith. May be you have studied a lot about literature, history, culture, But that does not have something to do with the doctrine of salvation. If it were so, the people who are uneducated are lost. God makes the principles. God’s principle unless God himself changes remains the same however we are changeable and our principles do change according to time and situations.

Brother thank you for the suggestion to pray to God. If you are thinking you know everything correctly and others do not know correct when it comes different view than yours, then I would like to suggest you also the same thing to do!

You said about those fallen in sin Hebrew 6 who do not have the possibilty to be revived to repentance for their grave sins, were false Christians. No, they were true but fell. Again here you did not understand the context. The concept of salvation which you do not understand was a long time an apple of discord and misunderstaning for Luther and Calvin. Plus for liberal theologists  is hard to perceive the doctrine of salvation. They take it rigidilly as you.  I do not express myself phylosophically, but normally. Sorry for not having time to explain more. It would take me a lot of time to do it as you are not familiar with many Biblical  things.

My comment: Brother you look like a person who knows bible a lot. Definitely you should have lot of knowledge of bible than me because you said I lack many informations of bible, I respect what you have said but I do not see any biblical basis on your answer why? I asked you to give the steps for salvation, the biblical principles like 1. 2. 3…. To be saved, the one who knows a lot of bible did not answer from bible why?

You said what I have said is out of context. But you said true Christians sin and fall from faith. What means true Christians for you? Does that mean the one who speaks in tongues, does prophesy or does other miracles? False Christians also can do such things. Read in Matthew 7:15-23(who are the one who did such prophesises and miracles in the name of Christ? Are they true Christians? Brother read carefully, Jesus said them false prophets no matter they did so many good things in the name of Jesus).

So question is who are true Christian? True Christians are those who love Jesus and follow him. Unless they reject Christ as their master they are true Christians. God alone is good (Luke 18:19). If someone does good, where does this goodness come from? Does it not come from God? Then if we do good we are God’s children, aren’t we? You said true Christians also do grave sin and fall from faith. How is it possible for the one who is true Christian to do sin? Brother what you have said is against the biblical principle. All the bad acts or sins belong to Devil (John 8:44), and if someone does sin, he/she belongs to devil and is slave of sin. Read 1 john 3:9-10, John 8:34. It is impossible to bear good and bad fruit in the same tree. Read Matthew 7:17-18. Here the problem of good and bad fruit is not the fruit itself but tree. The same way, what I have said is the one who act like true Christians but not really,  they are the one who bears such sin which cannot be repented again and forgiven. I have said that true Christians have all the time the possibility to choose different masters of their life even after they are born of spirit. The true Christian becomes false Christian only after when he/she chooses other masters for their life. Other masters can be money, Properties, Principles or Angels or prophets etc. The grave sin, the sin which can not be repented and forgiven comes only after a person chooses wrong master.

If you interpret a text of bible which goes against the biblical principle, then this interpretation becomes wrong and out of context. Brother you said my interpretation is out of context but you did not prove it with biblical reference therefore your saying does not remain valid.

I see you did not have possibility to study theological books or to attend a church with a healthy doctrine. It is not always necessary to learn Biblical things from theologists, the most important is to learn from people inpired by holly spirit, as if they do not have education. Holly spirit learns them many things clear.

My comment : Brother how did you know that I did not get any possibility to study theological books? How did you know that my church has a wrong doctrine? I want you to remind you what Jesus said, If you judge something, judge correctly (John 7:24) otherwise you will be judged too(Matthew 7:1-2)! Brother please do not try to twist the topic, to make quarrels. I asked you simple questions and your responsibility is to give me answer, if you  do not want to give me answer you can do that too and if you ask me, I also give you my answers. My intention of doing this is to share the knowledge to each other rather than judging each other who is wrong and right. When we have the knowledge we judge ourself first rather than thinking of other and judging others.

I do not depend on people to understand something true from bible. I take first source with first priority  which is Bible and it is inspired by holy spirit, and second help is the Spirit of God himself which gives me revelations and Last one is people. I suggest you too to meditate on Bible first with first priority rather running after people so called inspired by holy spirit.

Regarding Luke 23:26-31, (Read Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.) Could romans destroy their childrens souls? Then why to cry?'' Answer: Again, you do not understand the context and neither interpretation. First you do not make the difference between author, narrator, and audiance, and between the adresser and the adresee. Jesus adressed generally to the nation of Isarel,

My comment: Brother  I asked you here a type of  questions, you answered me something else which does not match each other.  I did not make my interpretations but you said that I did not understand the context and interpretation. It sounds funny. I asked you to know your understanding and context but you did not write to me as my question requires.

You said Jesus adressed generally to the nation of Isarel in luke 23:26-31, them my question to you is that where is it written that Jesus addressed to the nation of Israel? Brother you should understand one thing, if I ask you a question about a topic it does not mean that I do not know anything of this topic. I suggest you to not to be proud of your knowledge of literature or history or master degree. Because the Grace of God is not for those who are proud(1 peter 5:5)

He did not address to Christians. In 70' A.D., the nation of Israel were besieged by Romans for a 3 years' time and half and then many of them were killed and sold as slaves. But the Christians at the beginning of this tribulation diparted from Israel and fled outside the Jerusalem in all the Roman empire when the Roman army retreated for a very short time because of a political confict at Rome. The Christians believed what Jesus had told them about Jersualem's annihilation. So no Christian underwent it.

My comment: But who were these women who followed Jesus, were they not followers of Christ?

You said which is said addressing Israel, does not apply for us. But you should not forget 2 timothy 3:16 that God’s word is inspired by holy spirit and is useful for everyone all the time no matter they came in different context and different situations than we are from.

The questions which you have not answered completely are 

• 1.      What are steps or biblical rules which are meant to obey to get salvation?
• 2.      Can a Christian purchase salvation with good deeds?
• 3.      Can a Christian keep laws of bible completely without making any error in life?
• 4.      If salvation can be obtained by our actions, then what difference is there between Christianity and other religion on salvation principle?
• 5.      If salvation is obtained by deeds why did Paul say to those people who confess in the mouth and believe in heart that Jesus is Lord, are saved? Romans 10:8-9
• 6.      If salvation is achieved by deeds then what is the need of Grace of God? Why did Paul many times say that we are saved by the grace of God?

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The second response to Salvation by deed conversation

Thank you brother for the quick response

Brother I did not bring confusions to you or I am not confused with what I have said to you but I see you are in confusions. May be you are confused with what I have said. I want to request you to show me specifically where and what I have said is biblically wrong (with the reasons from bible) and interpreted out of context. We need to talk the biblical truth instead of what we feel or what we think on specific topic.

I admit that I do not know everything of the bible. Paul being giant theologian says that he knows just a little (1 Corinthians 13:9,12).  May be you know better than me then you need to explain what you meant so that I can understand them well. You have made some interpretations I respect your own interpretations, but I am going to ask you which I have not understood from your reply.

No. 1 you said that 1 Timothy 2:15 can be understood literally. I want to ask you the literal questions. 1 Timothy 2:15(NIV) “But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety? 1 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

•  Who is she and they in KJV? Who are women and they in NIV?
• Women or she shall be saved in child-bearing but how? Where did you get the idea that child-bearing will contribute to her salvation? Is it just your opinion or biblical opinion too? I agree that God gave the role to Eve to get birth, but was this role given to her for the purpose of her salvation? However God gave roles to reproduce to Adam and Eve even before they sinned (Genesis 1:28). Was that role given for their salvation?
• You said If children are born and do not become faithful. No problems in a manner.  Really? Why did Jesus say the women of Jerusalem to weep for themselves and for their children? In Luke 23:27-28

No.2  About barren women you are not sure if they are saved or not. Why you are not sure of barren women.  Did Jesus not die for everyone both for barren and fertile?( 2 Corinthians 5:15, 1 Timothy 2:6, Hebrews 10:10 )  If bible is clear that Christ made the solution to have eternal life for everyone, why do you still live in doubt? Why did Jesus say that barren women will be called blessed? (Luke 23: 27-29, Isaiah 54:1)

No. 3 about salvation: You said that the salvation includes two phases. First phase is God’s act or contribution for salvation and 2^nd is our contribution for salvation. So according to you: our contribution to gain salvation is to fulfil the biblical rules and do good works.

•     Then let me know how much good works should I do to gain the salvation or be sure of my salvation? What are the biblical laws that I need to fulfil to be saved? How will you measure that you are saved or not? What if Jesus comes before you do your good works and fulfil the biblical principles?
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•    Why did not Jesus say to Rich young ruler in Luke 18:22 that after the good work of obeying the law and giving money to the poor, he would be saved instead to follow him? Was his faith in God of the Old Testament and actions of obeying god’s law plus charity not enough to be saved?
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•    How could the 2^nd criminal who repented at the cross before his death be saved at the same moment that day if belief in Jesus alone was not necessarily enough?( Luke 23:39-43  39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”)
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•     If we need to earn salvation and if salvation is achieved by our deeds, what is the need of grace? What is the need of sacrifice of Jesus at cross? (Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!)
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•    If faith in Jesus is not enough why did Paul say faith in heart and declaring in mouth saves? in Romans 10: ⁸ But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: ⁹ If you declarewith your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. ¹⁰ For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. If salvation is attained by human works then what is left difference between Christianity and other religions? Do they also not try to do good things? All other religion or religious people try to do good works and obey their commandments to be saved. They also give to the poor and give charity.
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•    If we should also work to gain salvation then how can the salvation be the gift? (Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 4:4-5 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift/Grace but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.)
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•    Why did Jesus say to the sinful women in Luke 7:36-50 that her faith has saved her instead of crediting her action?

What I have understood from your writing is that what Jesus did is not enough to be saved and we should also do something or sacrifice to obtain it. I don’t believe the same. Let us imagine that we all are suffering from cancer. We have no hope to be survived, but Jesus came down to earth and made a capsule of medicine for each sick people and said, Here is the solution of your sickness, come to me, take it freely and eat it you will be saved. In this situation our roles to be healed is to accept what is made as solution. We do not need to make a medicine of our sickness because we can never do that. Jesus made it already and he said it is finished. The New way of living comes after healing but not before healing when a person is suffering. The principle applies the same in our spiritual life. Unless we become a new creation in Christ, we can do nothing new in our life (John 15:4-5). A man can try all his life to do different good things but that does not change something because the man is still not a new creation. So when and how can a man be a new creation that is the crucial thing. When a person believes and accepts Jesus upto the death for sin, then the moment he becomes a new creation and the journey of new life begins!

The main foundation of new life is Jesus and the core values are faith, love and hope. Out of them Love plays the biggest role while we live. The true Christians love each other not to gain righteousness but to give glory to Jesus. If we love each other, the result will be that People will know that we are disciple of Jesus (John 14:34-35). Our action will witness about Christ. Whatever we do we do to witness the Christ(Acts 1:8) and for his glory( 1 Corinthians 10:31, Col. 3:23). All these things should come out of love. When we love Jesus in this way, he has promised us to give wonderful and excellent rewards which are beyond our imagination(1 cor. 2:9)

Luke 16:19-31 the story of Lazarus and rich man

How did Lazarus go to heaven? Is that just because he was poor? Certainly not. It looks like he did not have the opportunity to do good works in life.  He should have believed Moses and prophets of the Old Testament. He should have been gone to Heaven through the name of Jesus.

Why did rich man go to hell? Is it because he did not help the poor lazarus? I don’t think so. Let’s see the response what his father Abraham says, ²⁹ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’  Abraham did not say that his brother’s should help the poor or give charity but he simply said that they should believe their scripture. And he even said to him ³¹ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” The problem with the rich man and his brothers seems that they did not believe what Moses and Prophets had said. They did not believe the God they have preached. Moses and Prophets in the scripture talked about Jesus.(John 1:45,Acts 8:35,acts 10:43). The rich man did not believe finally in Jesus. That was the main problem. This was the common problem among Jews when Jesus was on earth. Most of them thought that they were blessed because of father Abraham and they did not see the need of Jesus in their life. Because of this wrong understanding and false hope they did not believe Jesus as their Saviour. Abraham’s final saying in this story helps us to understand that if someone does not believe on true God of the scripture then there are no other acts or miracles that lead a person to be saved! Abraham himself believed in God of the Old Testament that leaded him to heaven! (Romans 4:3What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”)

Comments from Matthew 25:31-46

First we need to understand the difference between sheep and the Goats! Jesus is the shepherd of the sheep but not of the goats! Jesus said “My sheep” to only for those who know him and obey him (John 10:2-4, 14, 27). Sheep truly believe the shepherd therefore they follow the shepherd. But the one who does not believe Jesus are not his sheep, they are goats (John 10:26). Here the people who sat to the right side of Jesus were the true sheep i.e. they were the one who knew Jesus truly, believed in him and followed him! Definitely the sheep did many good works but they did not consider themselves righteous based on their good works. They believed in the righteousness of their shepherd/master. They pursued their faith instead of their own righteousness.  But on the other hand goats they were the one who did not believe the true master and considered themselves righteous probably based on their good works-Mt. 25:37. May be they had demonstrated their love in partiality. They did not see Jesus in little, needy and neglected people. May be they helped to those only who were good to them or they did good deeds with their own selfish desires. They pursued righteousness by their actions. Bible clearly tells that salvation (eternal life) is gained only by faith but evaluation of the life of a person which is recieved by faith will be by deeds (2 cor. 5:10). All the good deeds of Christians are only meant for glory of God and rewards. Even if all the works burn up when Lord will test, the worker will suffer (loose the rewards) but the worker will not go to hell! (Read 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.) But all other people who did not believe in the name of Jesus no matter whatever good they try to do their works will not be considered as good because God alone is Good(Mark 10:18). Without God in Jesus no one can bear good deeds or good fruits (John 15:4). The people without faith in Jesus will be condemned and thrown into fire(Mark 16:16). People who reject Christ will have no excuse to be saved. (Romans 1:18-20)

James 2:26

As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

It is true saying but it does not mean faith and deeds are completely different things. Faith is dimensional and dynamic. Genuine faith is always active. Faith can be manifested by different ways, such as through thoughts of the mind, speech and through deeds. Here James does not teach that faith and deeds are two steps for salvation, but he says the faith that is not expressed through deeds does not exist and it is like dead. His point is that we need to understand faith in true sense. Finally again, deeds out of faith in Jesus is useless. It is not our deeds but the deeds of Jesus at cross and his blood took away sin. (1 Peter 1:18-19)

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The First response on"Women child bearing and salvation" to a christian brother who made an inquiry

Dear friend, do you believe on literal meaning of “1 Timothy 2:15”

“But women/she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety”?Literally if you believe that women who bear children are saved, then we need to know that God made two ways for salvation. One is by faith in Christ and his grace, the other is by act of woman bearing child. Then what about the women who are barren? Are they not saved?

Understanding of the verse from 1 timothy 2:15 can vary from person to person, because the verse itself is not clear statement. Paul did not mention who this pronoun she or woman is meant for. How can they be saved by child bearing? Who means “they”? Such questions are difficult to answer. But we need to accept the interpretation which does not contradict with bible itself.

The woman who will be saved by child-bearing literally does not fit with biblical principle. Bible says the only way(John 14:6, Acts 4:12, John 3:16) of salvation of human kind is Jesus Christ himself and we are saved by the act of God himself who sacrificed his son at cross, by faith in Jesus and by Grace of God we are saved(Ephesians 2:8) not by our acts. Therefore Salvation is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23). Does the saying of Paul in 1 timothy 2:15 imply that he is wrong on saying so?

No, he said the truth but we need to understand in context and possible interpretations using his own sayings which dont conflict with the main doctrine. Then we need to find out what means to be saved by child bearing. Does it talk about salvation or something else?

Before we go further analysis, let us read from Psalms 127: 3 Children are a heritage from the Lord, offspring a reward from him. Which children are the heritage from lord? The earthly or heavenly children? What if the children that you have all went to hell? Can heritage of God be in hell?

No, the heritage of God will be always with God (John 10:28-29). Therefore we need to understand term children which means not the earthly children we bear but the spiritual children and they will inherit the kingdom of God!

If we are able to bear 100 earthly children and just one of them does not accept Jesus and goes lost or goes in hell, how much pain will be for the parents for the sake of just one child out of 100? Therefor Jesus said in Luke 15: 3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? Isn’t it true? Then what is the benefit of having many earthly children if you’re entirepeace is lost when one of them goes astray?

God made a promise or covenant with Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 and 15:5, 22:17 saying that he will bless Abraham by giving him uncountable children like the stars in the universe, as the sand in the seashore and all the people will be blessed through him. That is why the offsprings of Abraham the Jews, the Pharisees and Sadducees while Jesus was on earth also thought that they were blessed because of their forefather Abraham. And to them Jesus said: And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham Matthew 3:9. This makes us to understand that God does not count earthly children as blessing but the heavenly children. Therefore it is written in John 1:12-13, the children of God is the one only who is born of God. For God flesh counts nothing, but the spirit of God in us, the new life in us or we being the new creation in Christ counts (John 6:63, Galatians 6:15, 2 cor. 5:17).

Solomon had got this wisdom from God and said Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth. The blessing and success are not counted when a person is born! They are counted by the end of life! Therefore it is not wise to say that the woman or the man who has many children is blessed. Solomon understood this and said everything is meaningless except to fear God and obey him Ecclesiastes 12. Jesus also said in Matthew 16:26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? You may have 100 earthly children but if they end without Jesus what is the gain in the life? Jesus said in Luke 23:29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!

Bible makes it clear that having earthly children are not real blessings. Real blessings come when they belong to Christ! It is a lot better to have children who will inherit the heaven. Paul never married but had many spiritual children. All the believers who came after him loved them like his own children (1 cor. 4:14). Jesus was not married but said to his disciples my children (john 13:33), Apostle John never married but said his disciples my children (3 john 1:4).  It is not obligatory to be married to have heavenly children which are heritage of God. We can have them by preaching gospel and making disciple of Christ.

Paul said it is good to remain unmarried (1 cor. 7:1) and wished that all men were unmarried like him if it were possible (1 cor. 7:7). He told to the virgins that it was good to stay virgin if they had the gift like he had.( 1 cor. 7:26-28)

If marriage and bearing children was so much essential, Paul would not have suggested to some to remain single in certain situations!

Of course marriage is very important for those who cannot control. (1 cor. 7:9) but this essentiality is not for every woman or man! And about bearing children, every man has a right to bear as many children as God allows him to have no question or doubt on it! The duty comes together with right! As you bear many children, much more responsibilities, duties and problems as well are added! If a man has many earthly children but he is not able to have hearts (care and love) to them, if he is not able to prepare them to bring to kingdom of God, then what happens? Bible says the last thing will be curse! (Malachi 4:5-6, Luke 1:17). Therefore better is to think in a balanced way, and take decision with wisdom. Better is to have spiritual children who are real heritage from God.

God is going to fulfil what was promised to Abraham of having uncountable children in a wonderful way. Paul says in Roman 9: 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. The people who believe in Christ are the children of promise to Abraham, therefore we all who believe in Jesus and obey him are Abrahams offspring (Galatians 3:7) as well as God’s children.( Romans 8:16)

Now to the conclusion what biblically can mean when Paul said woman/she is saved through childbirth.

Interpretation no.1

The time when Paul gave instructions about Church, personal family life and leadership to Timothy, they had problems with false teachings and false teachers. And one of the false teachings was that every believer man/woman should not marry and bear children to be saved and they should abstain from certain foods as well. (1Timothy 4:4) Some of the people might have been deceived by such false teaching, to answer this wrong teaching Paul might have said if women/she have/has put faith in Jesus and lived life of repentance , Women/she are saved even through their marriage and child-bearing.

Interpretation no. 2

Let us read from 1 Timothy 4:16 watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. How can Timothy be saviour of himself and of the one who hears him? Are there many saviours? Can we also save people from hell? Certainly not, No one can save sinner except Jesus himself. Then what does this mean? This means if Timothy lived according to sound doctrine and that will protect first himself from being false and doing sin. But if he teaches to other false doctrine and if the hearer will be deceived and that will not protect them till the Day of Judgment. Here save means to protect from bad things or sins. If we apply the same meaning to the 1 timothy 2:15, it would mean “the woman is weak like Eve. Eve did sin when she was childless. But after having children the woman would be busy in caring them and raising them that will help the woman to be protected from doing sin! If they remain faithful till the end of course that will save them but child bearing itself is not the act that saves the woman” In original Greek  “she” is used instead for woman and they, but later translations used woman, women and they. So if we try to analyse original word, she can mean specific woman that Paul had in his mind but he did not want to mention the name or if she is mentioned as to mean general woman, it does not mean every woman that should have childbearing, but a specific group of women who are weak and cannot control themselves. They should be married as Paul suggested (1 cor.7: 9) and by having children and family they will be protected from doing sin.

Now to your point, the population of Christians are decreasing and Muslims are increasing in Europe. Finally they will rule over everywhere, and persecute us who are Christian! Will it be a punishment from God because of our sin of participating in birth control?

God’s punishment is only for the wicked but not for the children of God. The punishment from God comes after the final judgment (2 Peter 2:9). There is a day of judgment, that day God will punish all ungodly. Before that time comes God does not punish anyone! God has set a day for judgment of mankind (Acts 17:31, Revelation 11:18). He does not need to set a day if he is going to punish everyone whenever he wants. Our God is therefore the God of order, justice and love. He never makes error in his plans. He is all the time trust worthy.  

God allows his people like Job, Jesus and us his disciples to suffer and be persecuted sometimes for a good reason. Persecution is expected in our life (John 15:20) But these suffering and persecution does not bring the end to those who love God in Christ (Romans 8:38-39). All the bad things come to us because of our sinful choice, because of devil and evil world. Never the bad things come to God’s children from the heavenly father (Matthew 7:9-10). But God tests his children by allowing them to go through toughs and trials of life so that they may become mature spiritual children of Him. God rescues us from the trials finally. Therefore I don’t think if Muslims will persecute Christians, that will be as God’s punishment for us because of our sins. However we know the reason, if Muslims persecute Christians, they persecute because of the faith in Christ.

Let us think the other part of the truth. What can Muslim do to us? Can they kill our souls? (Matthew 10:28)No, if they kill our body, it is not loss at all; we will have perfect body at the day of resurrection. Even if God will allow Muslims to persecute Christians, praise the lord. The truth is that we should not be so much proud of being the Christians in Europe or America because we are so called major Christians. Most of the people think Europeans and Americans are Christians, really? I don’t believe they are really Christians and Christian countries. If they were Christians how could they use their military force to kill other people? Where in bible did Jesus teach to kill innocents and enemies? If they were Christians how could they allow homosexuality, sex trade, divorce, abortion etc. in the country as legal act? God knows the best. I think Americans and Europeans though they claim they are Christians and they belong to Christian country, true Christians are very less than we expect. Therefore if we come from Europe, there is no need to be proud being as European having major Christians.

God is in control of everything. God holds the future. We cannot change the future which God has already set! Therefore we do not need to worry for future and our fates but we should be focused to present and to Jesus. In my opinion it is better if there is going to be persecutions in Europe and America to refine the believers. Many fake Christians do not bring glory to Jesus but they are just defaming Christ and Christianity and I am sure few true Christians will bring glory and honour to Christ and blessing to whole nations.

I don’t think all the Muslims will remain Muslim all their life. May be when they migrate in Europe, if we true Christians can share the full truth to them and love them, their anger, enmity and misunderstanding will be perished. Definitely if God has chosen them they will one day come to Christ! They will be also Abraham’s offspring. We should not look Muslims always with a stereotype of criminals and bad people. When God will touch these people in in their hearts, souls and minds, they will be totally different than we expect. We have some good examples that some of the Muslims have become Christians after migrating to Europe.

Now days, many non-Christian people are not interested in Christianity anymore. Even among so called Christians, many are fallen back. Love among them is grown cold. Muslims and other non-Christian people have started to value Christianity as valueless and it is because of us who call ourselves Christians but live a life of self-righteousness.

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