The second response to Salvation by deed conversation

Thank you brother for the quick response

Brother I did not bring confusions to you or I am not confused with what I have said to you but I see you are in confusions. May be you are confused with what I have said. I want to request you to show me specifically where and what I have said is biblically wrong (with the reasons from bible) and interpreted out of context. We need to talk the biblical truth instead of what we feel or what we think on specific topic.

I admit that I do not know everything of the bible. Paul being giant theologian says that he knows just a little (1 Corinthians 13:9,12).  May be you know better than me then you need to explain what you meant so that I can understand them well. You have made some interpretations I respect your own interpretations, but I am going to ask you which I have not understood from your reply.

No. 1 you said that 1 Timothy 2:15 can be understood literally. I want to ask you the literal questions. 1 Timothy 2:15(NIV) “But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety? 1 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

•  Who is she and they in KJV? Who are women and they in NIV?
• Women or she shall be saved in child-bearing but how? Where did you get the idea that child-bearing will contribute to her salvation? Is it just your opinion or biblical opinion too? I agree that God gave the role to Eve to get birth, but was this role given to her for the purpose of her salvation? However God gave roles to reproduce to Adam and Eve even before they sinned (Genesis 1:28). Was that role given for their salvation?
• You said If children are born and do not become faithful. No problems in a manner.  Really? Why did Jesus say the women of Jerusalem to weep for themselves and for their children? In Luke 23:27-28

No.2  About barren women you are not sure if they are saved or not. Why you are not sure of barren women.  Did Jesus not die for everyone both for barren and fertile?( 2 Corinthians 5:15, 1 Timothy 2:6, Hebrews 10:10 )  If bible is clear that Christ made the solution to have eternal life for everyone, why do you still live in doubt? Why did Jesus say that barren women will be called blessed? (Luke 23: 27-29, Isaiah 54:1)

No. 3 about salvation: You said that the salvation includes two phases. First phase is God’s act or contribution for salvation and 2^nd is our contribution for salvation. So according to you: our contribution to gain salvation is to fulfil the biblical rules and do good works.

•     Then let me know how much good works should I do to gain the salvation or be sure of my salvation? What are the biblical laws that I need to fulfil to be saved? How will you measure that you are saved or not? What if Jesus comes before you do your good works and fulfil the biblical principles?
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•    Why did not Jesus say to Rich young ruler in Luke 18:22 that after the good work of obeying the law and giving money to the poor, he would be saved instead to follow him? Was his faith in God of the Old Testament and actions of obeying god’s law plus charity not enough to be saved?
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•    How could the 2^nd criminal who repented at the cross before his death be saved at the same moment that day if belief in Jesus alone was not necessarily enough?( Luke 23:39-43  39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”)
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•     If we need to earn salvation and if salvation is achieved by our deeds, what is the need of grace? What is the need of sacrifice of Jesus at cross? (Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!)
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•    If faith in Jesus is not enough why did Paul say faith in heart and declaring in mouth saves? in Romans 10: ⁸ But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: ⁹ If you declarewith your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. ¹⁰ For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. If salvation is attained by human works then what is left difference between Christianity and other religions? Do they also not try to do good things? All other religion or religious people try to do good works and obey their commandments to be saved. They also give to the poor and give charity.
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•    If we should also work to gain salvation then how can the salvation be the gift? (Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 4:4-5 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift/Grace but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.)
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•    Why did Jesus say to the sinful women in Luke 7:36-50 that her faith has saved her instead of crediting her action?

What I have understood from your writing is that what Jesus did is not enough to be saved and we should also do something or sacrifice to obtain it. I don’t believe the same. Let us imagine that we all are suffering from cancer. We have no hope to be survived, but Jesus came down to earth and made a capsule of medicine for each sick people and said, Here is the solution of your sickness, come to me, take it freely and eat it you will be saved. In this situation our roles to be healed is to accept what is made as solution. We do not need to make a medicine of our sickness because we can never do that. Jesus made it already and he said it is finished. The New way of living comes after healing but not before healing when a person is suffering. The principle applies the same in our spiritual life. Unless we become a new creation in Christ, we can do nothing new in our life (John 15:4-5). A man can try all his life to do different good things but that does not change something because the man is still not a new creation. So when and how can a man be a new creation that is the crucial thing. When a person believes and accepts Jesus upto the death for sin, then the moment he becomes a new creation and the journey of new life begins!

The main foundation of new life is Jesus and the core values are faith, love and hope. Out of them Love plays the biggest role while we live. The true Christians love each other not to gain righteousness but to give glory to Jesus. If we love each other, the result will be that People will know that we are disciple of Jesus (John 14:34-35). Our action will witness about Christ. Whatever we do we do to witness the Christ(Acts 1:8) and for his glory( 1 Corinthians 10:31, Col. 3:23). All these things should come out of love. When we love Jesus in this way, he has promised us to give wonderful and excellent rewards which are beyond our imagination(1 cor. 2:9)

Luke 16:19-31 the story of Lazarus and rich man

How did Lazarus go to heaven? Is that just because he was poor? Certainly not. It looks like he did not have the opportunity to do good works in life.  He should have believed Moses and prophets of the Old Testament. He should have been gone to Heaven through the name of Jesus.

Why did rich man go to hell? Is it because he did not help the poor lazarus? I don’t think so. Let’s see the response what his father Abraham says, ²⁹ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’  Abraham did not say that his brother’s should help the poor or give charity but he simply said that they should believe their scripture. And he even said to him ³¹ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” The problem with the rich man and his brothers seems that they did not believe what Moses and Prophets had said. They did not believe the God they have preached. Moses and Prophets in the scripture talked about Jesus.(John 1:45,Acts 8:35,acts 10:43). The rich man did not believe finally in Jesus. That was the main problem. This was the common problem among Jews when Jesus was on earth. Most of them thought that they were blessed because of father Abraham and they did not see the need of Jesus in their life. Because of this wrong understanding and false hope they did not believe Jesus as their Saviour. Abraham’s final saying in this story helps us to understand that if someone does not believe on true God of the scripture then there are no other acts or miracles that lead a person to be saved! Abraham himself believed in God of the Old Testament that leaded him to heaven! (Romans 4:3What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”)

Comments from Matthew 25:31-46

First we need to understand the difference between sheep and the Goats! Jesus is the shepherd of the sheep but not of the goats! Jesus said “My sheep” to only for those who know him and obey him (John 10:2-4, 14, 27). Sheep truly believe the shepherd therefore they follow the shepherd. But the one who does not believe Jesus are not his sheep, they are goats (John 10:26). Here the people who sat to the right side of Jesus were the true sheep i.e. they were the one who knew Jesus truly, believed in him and followed him! Definitely the sheep did many good works but they did not consider themselves righteous based on their good works. They believed in the righteousness of their shepherd/master. They pursued their faith instead of their own righteousness.  But on the other hand goats they were the one who did not believe the true master and considered themselves righteous probably based on their good works-Mt. 25:37. May be they had demonstrated their love in partiality. They did not see Jesus in little, needy and neglected people. May be they helped to those only who were good to them or they did good deeds with their own selfish desires. They pursued righteousness by their actions. Bible clearly tells that salvation (eternal life) is gained only by faith but evaluation of the life of a person which is recieved by faith will be by deeds (2 cor. 5:10). All the good deeds of Christians are only meant for glory of God and rewards. Even if all the works burn up when Lord will test, the worker will suffer (loose the rewards) but the worker will not go to hell! (Read 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.) But all other people who did not believe in the name of Jesus no matter whatever good they try to do their works will not be considered as good because God alone is Good(Mark 10:18). Without God in Jesus no one can bear good deeds or good fruits (John 15:4). The people without faith in Jesus will be condemned and thrown into fire(Mark 16:16). People who reject Christ will have no excuse to be saved. (Romans 1:18-20)

James 2:26

As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

It is true saying but it does not mean faith and deeds are completely different things. Faith is dimensional and dynamic. Genuine faith is always active. Faith can be manifested by different ways, such as through thoughts of the mind, speech and through deeds. Here James does not teach that faith and deeds are two steps for salvation, but he says the faith that is not expressed through deeds does not exist and it is like dead. His point is that we need to understand faith in true sense. Finally again, deeds out of faith in Jesus is useless. It is not our deeds but the deeds of Jesus at cross and his blood took away sin. (1 Peter 1:18-19)