The Sixth conversation about salvation by deeds

Here comes my reply to your last email:

As you said we Christians got salvation free and we do not have to do anything to be saved. Many times I mentioned that Linguistics plays a central role in understanding Bible. For many people the language is a confusion when they do not want to understand the strait gate of the Bible. The salvation depends on us.Jesus offered us salvation free, but we must comform to his teachings, orders, commandsments, Biblical principles, etc.

Me:Yes salvation depends on us and it is only on our decision whether to believe in Christ as lord and saviour or not but it does not depend upon our actions or good deeds.

If you look up a word in dictionary, you will see how many meanings, senses and connotations a word has. The linguistics has in its structure many branches: one of them which is very important is semantics and semiotics. The word salvation has more meanings. One with reference to the forgiveness from our sinful past by grace, mercy, by sacrifice of Jesus at cross.

Me:So do you mean the sacrifice of Jesus is only for the forgiveness of sins before one comes to faith in Jesus and not for the future sins? That means the sacrifice of Jesus at cross is not enough for the future sins of a person. Brother what if a weak Christian commits a sin once for example adultery after believing in Christ? Will there be forgiveness of this sin without Jesus? How does God forgive our each and every sins? Isn’t that through the blood of jesus? 1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin . Is there forgiveness of sin without bloodshed? Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

How many times did Jesus die at cross? Only once or many times? (Romans 6: 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.)

If the truth is that Christ died just once for all sins and can not die again and his death and blood is obligatory for remission of sins then conclusion is Christ died for the sins of past, present and future at once for all except for the sin of blasphemy of holy spirit. If this is the truth, then what you have said is a lie brother. Because you said the sacrifice of Jesus at cross gives the forgiveness from our past only.

Another sense if we follow Jesus's teachings to be saved to the end to enter the heaven, and not in the hell.  In the teachings and parables of Jesus it is clear described that the salvation depends on us. A good example is the parable of mines, Jesus showed us category of people that God offered salvation free, but they were lazy, sinful or indiffrent over God's plan of salvation.Luke 19: 13-26

Me:I see that you understand from this parable that salvation is based upon our deeds but I understand quite different than you. Let us judge our understanding with the revelation of spirit.

This parable was told on the way to Jerusalem to correct the misunderstanding of kingdom of God because many thought and expected that kingdom of God would come immediately and through Jesus – Luke 19:11! Jesus earlier told to disciples and other  Pharisees that kindom of God does not come with human observation –Luke 17:20-21.

This parable talks about different aspects and important concepts of kingdom of God.

The king represents Jesus himself. Two types of people mentioned. Three servants and other enemies who did not accept Jesus to be their king,Out of three servants, the third servant represents fake and unfruitful servant. The third servant was fake because he did not have love for the king. He was afraid of the king from whom he got the mina to  invest. The fear was ruling all over him. He was afraid of investing mina. He was afraid that if he would loose mina, he would be in danger and be punished. Because of that fear he took good care of it without investing till the King returns. The fear of this servant proves that he did not love his master truly -1John 4:18. Anyone who does not love his/her master above than any other thing is fake, false servant or disciple –Luke 14:26-27. Jesus also had one fake disciple out of 12, Jesus knew it from before but he used even this fake servant to fulfil God’s plan over him. The actions are the outcomes of who we really are!

Human judges a person based on the deeds because we are not able to see the hearts or the inner faith and thoughts of a person unless they produce some visible fruits. But for God it is crystal clear the minds, thoughts and hearts of a person. Everything of us in the past , present and future is visible for God –Hebrews 4:13. The beginning of change in us is from heart and mind. Either holiness or sin all begins from the heart or the mind. The newness of our life, the newness being in Christ begins from the new heart -(Matthew 15:19-20,James 1:14-15). Transformation in life or good fruit comes after renewing the mind or hearts –Romans 12:2,Paul said to Galatians ‘Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.’ Galatians 6:15.Jesus said in Matthew 5:8 ‘Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.’

The minas which were given to three servants with different amount do not represent either the eternal life or salvation. It can mean talents, spiritual gifts, money and propertis, love, opportunities etc which we get free from God. Definitely God is going to reveal everything what we have done while we were in body at the day of Judgement. God does not need our actions to know who we are because God can know our hearts and motives without examining our deeds but God is going to expose our deeds to reveal the truth who we are to everyone and to test our actions by fire. We being Christians, our deeds are related with the rewards and our faith of the heart related with salvation of the soul. Prizes or rewards are based on how good or best you do (1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.) but eternal life is a free gift by grace and mercy of God in Jesus christ our Lord(Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.). It is not the wage what you deserve because of your good deeds! Therefore Paul says to Corinthians a principle that even a Christian will lose a reward or suffer loss at what he/she had done in earthly life, will be saved (1 cor. 3:12-15)

Here in the parable of minas, the two servants who were true servants did good job and finally received what they deserved. This parable encourages us to invest and increase what we have received freely for Him. The third servant who got a mina from a master finally without any investment returned the same amount to The king. Concerning this man Jesus said in verse 26 of Luke 19, ‘To everyone who has , more will be given, as for the one who has nothing even what he has will be taken away’. This makes a sense that the third servant had nothing which was very essential and he was given just a mina. The thing which he did not have, made him to be lazy. The thing which he did not have with him was the living faith. He believed that the king is very strict and because of that he got fear. His faith was dead faith because even demons have dead faith. Demons believe that God is only one and afraid of him(James 2:19)The servants who became faithful to the king got more responsibilities in heaven and more authorities, and these are just rewards and these ten cities does not represent eternal life. To use this bible text from Luke 19:13-26 to show that our good deeds according to the bliblical laws are obligatory to enter into heaven is only the misuse and misinterpretation of the context.

Another example which shows us that the salvation is free from the side of God, but from our side that we must make efforts to be saved. Mathew 7: 13-14“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Me:What does this Narrow gate mean? Jesus himself said in John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. Matthew 7:13-14 does not talk about our effort to go to heaven rather it talks about narrow gate which is Jesus alone(John 14:6)

In Philippians 2: 12, it is clear seen that the salvation is a process which will be ended in the heaven and depends on us. "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose".

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Me:Yes salvation is in a way process because it includes justification, sanctification and glorification. The work of salvation will be complete when we will be in heaven together with God. Till that time it is a process. But we have received eternal life through faith now and we will have eternal life in heaven without faith. Faith is not necessary when you yourself can see and experience completely in heaven. Here Paul encourages to Philippians in chapter 2:12-13 to work out the salvation. There is a difference between work out and work for.  Paul did not say them to work for the salvation but instead he said work out your salvation meaning exercise your salvation with fear and trembling. Fear and trembling represents heartfelt respect. All Christians should know that the true Christians will exercise salvation and bear fruits and they should judge themselves whether they are true Christians or not. To exercise driving you need to have a car in the same way to exercise salvation we need to have salvation that comes to us through faith.

Jesus said to Zacchaeus in Luke 19:9 salvation has come to this house because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. Before he believed in Jesus he was not the son of Abraham, he was living a sinful life. When he came to know Jesus he loved him and believed him from heart. His faith made him son of Abraham(Galatians 3:7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham) His living faith caused salvation come to him. The living faith and the salvation which came in him changed his mind and he determines to do good deeds. The salvation to zacchaeus did not come because of his good actions otherwise Jesus would have told him , ‘Good Zacchaeus! what you thought to do is  really good. Do that then salvation will come to you’ .

The our salvation depend not only the good deeds, but on the patience too: Matthew 10: 22 "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Me:The context here is not about spiritual salvation it is about deliverance from suffering or persecution physically because of faith in Christ(Matthew 10:21-23). Jesus taught this to his disciples to be faithful or to stand firm till the end. It is a kind of promise that he will deliver them from all pains in the end!

Again, I say to you that our salvation is dependant on good deeds.

Me:Brother it is only your saying but not the real saying of bible:

James 2: 14-26

Me: Brother,It looks like that this passage is your theological hobby horse to support that deed is necessary to be saved. All the interpretations are meaningless unless we interpret this passage based on the context and in the biblical revelation (allowing bible itself to interpret).

James most probably the brother of Jesus or  the brother of John writes this letter addressing the Jewish nation(twelve tribes) who got converted to Christianity.(James 1:1 and 2:1)

He had to write this letter to correct the faith and problems due to lack of maturity in Christianity and finally to assist them to be mature Christians. –James 3:2

The problems which show the spiritual immaturity among converted Jewish Christians were impatience in difficulties -James1:1-4, talking the truth but not living the truth –James2:14, Lack of control over tongues –James 3:1, fighting and coveting among eachother –James 4:1, hoarding possessions such as Gold and silver James  5:1-11

James talks about dead and living faith, royal law and law of liberty in chapter 1 and 2 to correct their understanding of faith and living. James says in 2:14  ‘what good is it my brothers if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds can such faith save him?’ which faith you think he was talking about? You think he was talking about the faith in Jesus as their lord and saviour? No, it is the faith that they believed God is one!(verse 19) To have this faith is good but this faith alone does not save a person! The muslims, the Jehovah witnesses, Jewish and all other Unitarians believe God is only one. That is good but that faith does not save them. James tells furthermore that even demons believe there is one God (vs. 19) and this faith can save no demons or human beings. This type of faith is dead faith. How did these twelve tribes know that there is one God? Obviously through the knowledge of oldtestament. They believed that they should obey God’s laws of the old testament to be justified before God. James reveals the truth saying vs. 10 whoever keeps the whole law(old testament law) and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. The truth is that nobody is able to keep the whole law without causing a single error. If we make errors in keeping the law then we are guilty of breaking the whole.  If we break the law, then we cannot be justified by the law and we end up deserving the death. Therefore James says if you manage to keep the whole royal law(law of the oldtestament), you are doing good (2:8) but if you can not manage then believe in the perfect law that gives perfect freedom(James 2:12-13). When you are under this law you will be blessed on everything you do.(1:25). This perfect law of freedom represents Jesus himself and his Grace. John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 8: 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Matthew 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest)

There is no other thing that can set us free perfectly except the truth and Jesus. There is no one who can give us perfect rest and peace except Jesus (John 14:27). The faith that Jesus is our master or lord and savior is the true and living faith. The true faith will move us into action so that when we will be judged we will have mercy at the time of judgement. This mercy will be given only to those who live by perfect law of freedom or in another word by faith in Lord Jesus. The truth which is revealed through James is that Mercy triumphs over Judgement(James 2:12-13). The one who will have mercy of our Lord Jesus will not be condemned. But those who are under the law will be judged by the law and judgement will be shown without mercy. Single violation of law will result the whole wrath of God. (Romans 4:15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.) Therefore it  is not our deeds according to the laws of bible that can save or rescue our souls at the day of judgment but it is the true faith in the lord Jesus and his mercy which makes us bold and free to live for him being Gospel and merciful to other, saves us!

In the churches it is possible to be false Christians which false teaching Jesus warns of it in the Parable of the ten virgins. The Bible also warns us of false teaching and heresies in the lattest days. We live the lattest days. Have you tried to identify false teaching and heresies in the christianism ? The Western liberal theology support that it is enough to believe in Jesus, not to do good deeds too. It is false.

Me: You talked again about western theology, but I have told you already that I have nothing to do with this theology. No necessary to comment or talk about it. We must talk from bible rather than talking western, or eastern or Romanian theology. If you know that I have taught someone telling that we don’t need to do any good deeds after believing in Christ, please tell me openly, I will be happy to know the truth. But I have never told someone that we should not do any good deeds after having faith in Christ. Rather I have said that we must do good works which God has ordained from long before not for our salvation but for God and for his glory!(please read -Eph. 2:10, 2 cor. 5:15, 1 cor. 10:31, 1 cor. 14:8)

As regards the lies about you. You interpret it as lies. The brothers read what you read on your blog. You can show brothers from Lyngdal what you wrote on your blog and they can make an impression about it.The brothers from Itcani said that you seemed to avoid them. That you showed to be busy with the child. Viorica and Dorin could have translated you. I understood from brothers Viorica translated to you only partially on purpose so that you may not undarstand about the subject discussed. Viorel speaks English. You could have discussed with him. Now you can ask his mail address from your grand-mother and discuss with him in English.

Me: It is a complete lie if these brothers said to you that I have avoided them to talk! I am a man and I am not idol to stand still. I am in my home with my child. Child is not the reason to avoid them to talk with me, I felt alone and bored when these brothers kept on taking themselves about my teaching without even asking me a single opinion or letting me know what they were talking about. My wife was busy to serve them, my child needed someone to care, so I took care of him after a while. Holding a child does not stop your mouth to speak. If they wanted to talk with me, they could have talked with me even I was holding my child. To say that I have avoided to talk with them is an easy excuse to cover their shame. If I was in their place I would be full of shame.

I did not say lies about you brothers in Lyngdal. Again, as regards to lies God judge amoung us. Hi! It is good to interpret the Bible in the context. The salvation is free. You presented me many verses about free salvation, by grace, sacrifice of Jesus at cross. . All these refer to the fact we get free salvation from our sins, our sinful past when we repent. We cannot get forgiveness with money. But we must fullfil some biblical principle to be saved.

Me: Brother if you depend on fulfilling biblical rules and regulations to be saved eternally, I am very sure from what Paul said that you will end up without being saved.(Galatians 2:21, Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.)

In Matthew 25: 35-46. the parable of goats and sheep. There are many verses which speaks of it. all James chpater 2. It is no use discussing more because every one of us mentain his point of view.

Me: Sheep and Goat (Matthew 25:31-46)

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Apparent and conventional understanding is that Good deeds/charity is the evidence to the salvation. The truth of a parable does not lie on literal or apparent meaning or understanding. We must find the truth according to biblical context and biblical revelation of itself. Before we make interpretation of this parable we should keep in mind that Matthew 13:34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. Story of Sheep and goats is a parable.  The purpose of speaking in parables is to reveal the message to those only his chosen who believes in him (Matthew 13:10-17). These parables work the same in our time too. Before the judgment seatJesus our king says to the one who are to his right side(should be from different nations), Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.(vs 34) He did not say that come all you who are blessed by your good deeds but instead he said “blessed by My Father”.

What covenant did God make to bless his sheep or people? We should look from Old-testament.

Galatians 3:6-9

So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[ Gen. 15:6, Romans 4:3] 7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[ Gen. 12:3; 18:18; 22:18] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith

Romans 9:6-8

It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[ Gen. 21:12] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.Galatians 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.Galatians 4:28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Do we belong to Christ? Yes ..

How? We have the spirit of God in us Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Who gives us this spirit? Jesus and the father God(Luke 11:13, John16:5-7, 20:22)

Who brings us to Christ? Father John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Who chose us(Gentiles) to be God’s children? God himself Romans 8:15-16,Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their(Israelites’) transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

Is salvation because of what we did and we deserved? No— Romans 11:11, 5:8

Then why? Because of his own sovereign choice! Romans 9:15-16For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

We have seen that it is God who according to his will chose us to believe in Christ and blessed us abundantly despite of our good deeds! In this parable the sheep who sit to the right side of King are blessed by Father alone!

Next phase Jesus talks about the good deeds of sheep and bad deeds of goats

Sheep knows the shepherd and listens to him, is because they are sheep. They exhibit the sheep nature all the time. They have special relationship with their shepherd.  Here a group of people did good deeds not because they are to be saved but to demonstrate what they are.  They were blessed by father and he had prepared place for them from before!

John 10:14  “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me. John 10:26-28 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

It is true that the deeds of everyone will be exposed in the day of judgement (John 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.)

The goats did not do good deeds it is because they were not sheep of Jesus. They chose darkness and did bad things from the beginning. John 10:26

These false sheep even had done good deeds that would not rescue them. Because they would be judged according their motives and faith. A confident tax collector though he did good deeds and was confident of righteousness that comes by the law, could not rescue him finally. Luke 18:9-14, False sheep doing a lot of good deeds in the name of Jesus but did not do the will of God father in haven were not rescued- Matthew 7:21-23

Work of God which we must do and that saves us is to believe in Jesus John 6:28-29

Jesus came to proclaim the gospel to the poor in spirit than to do social charity for poor Matthew 11:1-6, Jesus is the one who can satisfy our thirst and Hunger for spiritual life John 6:53, John 4:10-11,13 John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.

As regards the Sexual Revolution, you can document yourself. It is written about Sexual Revolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_revolution_in_1960s_United_States "The pill" provided many women a more affordable way to avoid pregnancy." Also, about Liberal theology. It is important if you want to see the things with objective eyes, not with subjective motivation. As regard culture, culture shall not include sinful things. For example a woman which dress partially naked break the Biblical principles. Also a woman with makes up her nails makes a sin. In our days the society tends to have the culture of Sodome, we must not let influenced by it.

Paul also said about children in 1 Timothy 5:14 "So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander."

Me: But also paul did not say that every women should be married and should have many children. Did he ?