The third conversation about salvation by deeds

Let us be biblical:

The barren woman has another rôle to be saved. The woman is saved by childbearing is a hyperbole. It expresses an exaggerated truth which emphasizes the importance of this. Certainly, it is not enough; the woman has to fulfil many other rules and good deeds. This is a debt for a woman who is married and not barren.

Comment: I want to know other rules and good deeds for a woman that saves her. Please if you have time write for me.

In Luke 23:27-28. Jesus referred to the context of Jerusalem s destroyance by Roman empire which was going to happen. It happened in 70 AD. It was better for women who were barren because their children were mercilessly killed by Romnas. But this cannot be applied for the all context of history of humankind. Otherwise it would have been a recommandation from God that human spiece shal not reproduse and extinguish.

Commnet:  Brother you said Jesus said that in the context of War with Jerusalem by romans. It is fulfilled already and can not be applied now – do you mean that there will not be anymore war with Jerusalem? If it was on the context of war, will there not be wars in our time? If it is just related with war and killing by Romans, why Jesus had to tell these women to weep for themselves and their children? Did not Jesus teach them not to fear to those who kill body? (Read Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.) Could romans destroy their childrens souls? Then why to cry?

There ar a lot rules, laws and Biblical principles in New Testament. The Biblical researchers hold that there are several hundreds of commandments. You can read all the New Testament from the beginning til end and you will find many. Sorry for not having time to explain more about it. It is a long disscusion. Regarding salvation by good deeds is explained in the whole chapter 2 of James.

Comments: Are you able to keep absolutely all the laws like you said which are mentioned in the new testaments? If you miss one of the laws what happens? Read the verse from James chapter 2 which you recommended so much to support your idea, verse 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. My brother let us think practically. I want to be honest with you and God. I declare that I am not able to keep all the laws of bible. Even if I try my best I will miss one or the other because I am not perfect yet like Jesus. If I can not fulfil one small law then I am a whole law breaker. According to bible the one who breaks law is a sinner (1 john 3:4). The punishment or the wage of sin is DEATH (Romans 6:23)! I don’t know if you are perfect man like Jesus who can keep all the laws. If you cannot keep then you are a sinner like me. And also all the wrong doing is sin(1 John 5:17). Brother do you do sometimes wrong in your life? If you do wrong in your life, you are a sinner. Therefore we all want to be good or righteous people. We all want to do good but we cannot manage to keep doing good all the time. Therefore we deserve death. I don’t see any possibility of getting eternal life by obeying laws or doing good deeds! Therefore we need someone to rescue from this state that we are impossible to purchase our salvation! That rescuer is Jesus and his favour is called grace or mercy. Therefore I want to declare again like Paul told to every one of us, I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” Galatians 2:21.  Out of two we should choose one. Either we are saved by Grace or saved by obeying law. If you agree that you are saved by the grace of God but on the other hand you insist to tell people that we should obey laws to be saved then it is nothing more than insulting the grace of God! Please remember what it will happen to those who insult the grace of God (Hebrews 10:29)

Luke 18:18-30, It lacked him(young rich ruler) the first two commandments of law to love God and your naghbour from your all heart and power. This young rich man belonged to the party of pharises who boast of high level of spirituality. The reality was another.

Comment: You gave me an incomplete answer of my question. In this story, Rich man wanted to be sure of his salvation. That is why he came to Jesus and asked what he should do to go to heaven. Jesus answered him step by step. First step was to obey the commandments. He answered he did that. Then Jesus told him the next step that He shall sell his all property and give money to poor. Then he did not say that he will go to heaven by doing that but he gave further 3rd step. My question to you was, was it not enough for this man to obey God’s law and  to do good work out of the possession he owned to enter the kingdom of God?

Question: How could the 2nd criminal who repented at the cross before his death be saved at the same moment that day if belief in Jesus alone was not necessarily enough?( Luke 23:39-43) Answer: The criminal had a very short period of time from the moment he received salvation til he died. It was very important that he believed in Jesus, although he was in great agony. He did not have oportunity to do more than to believe in Jesus and bear crossification with belief he will be saved in heaven.

Comment: Brother here you came on my point! This criminal was saved by his faith in Jesus. Your point before was that we need both Faith and good works to be saved and faith alone is not enough and it cannot save a person. But you have seen yourself that in some cases people have been saved by Faith alone (faith was not expressed into action). Therefore your opinions of salvation contradict here. Show me one verse or one saying of Jesus from the bible that tells that a person can be saved by deed alone! Rather bible says that if a person does anything out of his faith sins (Romans 14:22-23). Here faith is counted so much than deeds. Therefore the importance of faith is so much more than the acts of people. Without a good act people can please God but without faith people can never please God (Hebrews 11:6)

As I mentioned last time. The word salvation is a polisemantic term which implies more different meanings which often creates confusions. The polisemantic terms stem from one meaning but once the evolution of the word developes in more meanings which are alike with the first meaning from the root of the term implying some differences. For example salvation is a long process which is not finished til the final destination. Let us say as in the case of Titanic castaway people were traveling in ocean and happens to them a castaway, their ship gets crashed and a part of people were saved by help of small boats. Is it a final salvation ? They had to row by wisdom and fullfil some norms to be saved til the shore. The same thing, it is a difference between the salvation which a man who repents of his sins gets free salvation from Jesus s sacrifice and from now on til his death it depends on him if he fullfil the objectives traced by God.

Comment: We are human beings and we think like humans, we become many times wrong when we think like humans but we need to think like how God thinks then we shall not be wrong. It is not me but Jesus says this, Read here John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. The one who is in Jesus meaning those who continue in genuine faith, the one who is chosen by God will never loose their salvation brother. This is the eternal security we have in Christ my brother. In your story you said after a crash of a ship you get into a small boat and got saved from big accident but it is not final salvation till you reach to shore you need to do something on your behalf! In human understanding you are right. But in biblical understanding, in that little boat we should not forget that Jesus will also be with us, and he will be the one to lead us to the safe place! When Jesus is with us we are 100% safe brother no matter how long we should go ahead.

In the parables of the mines(Luke 19. 11), God entrusted his slaves some mines to trade them and gain double from their trade, they were free, but God asks us the same thing, we are getting free salvation from Jesus, but we must continue our salvation obeying many rules, including good deeds. The faith is one of the piece of salvation, equally with the following vers. This is another piece in the frame of salvation: But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety? 1 Timothy 2:15

Comment: In this parable, minas cannot be compared with eternal life which we get from Jesus. When Jesus gave eternal life as a free gift, he did not give to some more and to some less eternal life! He gave the same eternal life to everyone! The minas can be compared the things which we get from God as free except eternal life. For example God gives us different spiritual gifts, talents, physical blessings, properties, your kids etc. God gives them to be protected and multiplied. God gives these things to us and not just to Christians but to non-Christians too. All will be judged according to their deeds in the last day(2 Cor . 5:10). When God will test the works of Christians and non-Christians before the time of punishment, all the works will be revealed. But the true Christians who live by faith in Jesus Christ even if they will lose rewards will never suffer the wrath in hell (1 cor. 3:13-14).  True Christians have escaped the wrath (1 Thes. 5:9).

Hebrew, chapter 6, we can see some people who commited grave sins and missed their salvation. The salvation can be missed. That° s why, it°s two type of salvation. Again, in James 2, it is explained that faith and good deeds are two components which are dependant on one another in the process of salvation.

Comment: Jesus is our shepherd. If we remain in him and if we follow him even if someone wants to take us and destroy us, Jesus will never allow that to happen to us. But after knowing Jesus accepting him in life Christians still have right to change their masters! Jesus never forced someone to believe him. Definitely if someone choses wrong master, the salvation will be lost! But the problem here is neither the salvation whether it will be gained forever or not nor about deeds but it is about the types of people and choice. There are two types of Christians, a true Christians and fake Christians. True Christians will never fall back from faith. Job was true believer. He never fell back in faith. But there are many fake Christians; they are the one who usually fall back. It is very difficult to awake to those who act like they are sleeping i.e false christians. About achieving salvation, like you said Faith and deeds goes together, but our deeds can never purchase salvation. If our acts are supposed to purchase salvation, then we all Christians should work for ourselves because we need salvation. Then we cannot work for God. We will be selfish worker, just working for your own purpose. This ideology goes beyond biblical principle.(Romans 14:6,8, 1 Corinthians 10:31). Whatever we do we do it for God and his glory, not for ourselves!

Question: Why did Jesus say to the sinful women in Luke 7:36-50 that her faith has saved her instead of crediting her action? Answer: Is she entered the heaven ? No, it depended on her faith and facts plus good deeds further til her death.

Comment: When did Jesus tell here that she will not enter to heaven and she needs to do good works further to be saved? What does her faith has saved her mean?

Question: What I have understood from your writing is that what Jesus did is not enough to be saved and we should also do something or sacrifice to obtain it. The Bible speak about our sacrifice in Romans 12

Comment: Roman 12 talks about living sacrifice, but where is it written that that living sacrifice is to gain salvation?

Question: Why did rich man go to hell? Is it because he did not help the poor lazarus? I don’t think so. Let’s see the response what his father Abraham says, 29 Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’ Answer: But the law of Moses and prophets also includes many rules to do good deeds.

Comment: Read John 5:39-40,46, Jews thought that obeying these rules they will find salvation but they did not see Jesus in the scripture to so that they could get salvation through him.

First, you must understand the language and literature, means of expression: methaphor, metonimies, iron, hyperbols. In Isaiah 54:1, God uses an situational irony forcasting the unfortunate situations for women and children in the context of future adversity for Israel implying: war, slavery, and forced migration in other countries. It was better for barren women because that children were going to fall victims in tribulations. This happened due to their sins

Comment: Brother I want to encourage you to be biblical than the philosophical for fake ideologies. If you know the true meaning, true context please explain well. Jesus told to the people who followed him not to be afraid of those who kill their body, Why they had to cry just because of war?